Support for other email clients?

Max_Quordlepleen · Post by **Max_Quordlepleen** » Fri Apr 13, 2001 7:43 pm

I am posting this here to see if there are other Atlantis users would like to see its email functions available for use with email clients than Outhouse or Outhouse Excreta? I now use Atlantis so much that the ability to email directly from it would be very useful, but not so much that I would ever go back to OE. So for now, I save my Atlantis files and attach them in my email client (Pegasus). Do any other Atlantis users think it would be nice to see other email clients supported?

Post by **admin** » Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:57 am

I see that I have to answer to this too... Atlantis uses a Windows mechanism called MAPI (Mail Applications Program Interface) to communicate with your default email program. Atlantis does not support any particular email client. To be able to use the Send by Email features of Atlantis, your email client should be MAPI-compatible, and should be specified as the default MAPI application (as a rule, you might have to specify this within the settings of your email client). Regrettably the best MAPI client I know is MS Outlook (Express).

Max_Quordlepleen · Post by **Max_Quordlepleen** » Sat Apr 14, 2001 6:37 am

Thanks, but it seems you're right about the MAPI problem. My default MAPI client is Pegasus Mail, which I can use in conjunction with my WordPerfect, but not my Atlantis. I guess it is only to be expected that a Windows API would be optimised for a Microsoft email client.

Grail_King · Post by **Grail_King** » Sat May 12, 2001 4:48 pm

I think any program that allows the use of E-mailing should let the user choose the email program of choice I prefer Agent ( I also use The Bat! but it is more than I really need) and would like Atlantis to allow me this freedom. Grail King

kwanhaeng · Post by **kwanhaeng** » Sat May 12, 2001 5:35 pm

I see there are other people who would like to see a total email solution involving Atlantis and whatever (any) email client, ftp & etc., without OE

or perhaps any other Microsloth, save the basic Win/OS, severely truncated to insure civility, (naturally). Any programmers out there? Workarounds, batch file solutions, hacks, something, anything to free much beloved Atlantis from any form of microslavery to the dreaded Redmond gi-ant. There must be a way to do it, without of course messing with Atlantis, which is a great program, not in need of messing with, (unlike Bill) ;D Kwanhaeng

Prince · Post by **Prince** » Mon May 14, 2001 7:12 am

Well,  ;)I am not sure, that I understand everything Kwanhaeng said. But I guess this question targets on an Open-Source-Atlantis. Interesting idea - Atlantis under Linux, OS2 or QNX. I am not sure if it is possible. Indeed it would need a lot of time.

samovar · Post by **samovar** » Wed May 23, 2001 2:47 pm

FWIW, my MAPI client is Netscape Messenger (the e-mail part of Netscape Communicator; I'm using version 4.74), and both Ocean Mind and Nova seem to invoke it with no problem. I suspect that if you can just get other mail clients properly registered as the default MAPI client, they'll work too.

Max_Quordlepleen · Post by **Max_Quordlepleen** » Wed May 23, 2001 4:46 pm

samovar wrote: FWIW, my MAPI client is Netscape Messenger (the e-mail part of Netscape Communicator; I'm using version 4.74), and both Ocean Mind and Nova seem to invoke it with no problem.  I suspect that if you can just get other mail clients properly registered as the default MAPI client, they'll work too.

Thanks, samovar. For some reason, my Pegasus mail client has integrated into my IE, but not Atlantis. I shall just have to keep trying.

Andrey_Zakharchuk · Post by **Andrey_Zakharchuk** » Thu May 24, 2001 9:46 am

> Thanks, samovar. For some reason, my > Pegasus mail client has integrated > into my IE, but not Atlantis. I > shall just have to keep trying. There are different ways to communicate with eMail client. Atlantis uses MAPI, but Internet Explorer uses 'system default e-mail client' that specified in registry. Default client havn't any relations with MAPI. This can be explained in the following way: Internet Exlorer needs eMail client only to handle URLs that started with 'mailto:' scheme. So it is quite enough for IE to find 'default email client' record in registry, get application name and run with some parameters (mentioned above URL). Atlantis requires more complex functionality, such as : create message, specify message parameters, attach document (i can mistake, but AFAIK last feature cannot be implemented through mailer command line), so Atlantis has to use MAPI (exactly SimpleMAPI as it called now). So connect Atlantis and your favourite mailer possible only if mailer supports SimpleMAPI specification (can be a SimpleMAPI server). As I know Outlook Express and Netscape Messenger supports SimpleMAPI, but others... ...haven't seen recent Pegasus version for ages, but last I seen didn't support MAPI. ...older Eudora versions was also non-MAPI-friendly, but as I've heard last ones support it. I think you can get information about MAPI support from support service. Best regards, Andrey.

Max_Quordlepleen · Post by **Max_Quordlepleen** » Thu May 24, 2001 11:57 am

Andrey_Zakharchuk wrote: > Thanks, samovar. For some reason, my > Pegasus mail client has integrated > into my IE, but not Atlantis. I > shall just have to keep trying. There are different ways to communicate with eMail client. Atlantis uses MAPI, but Internet Explorer uses 'system default e-mail client' that specified in registry. Default client havn't any relations with MAPI. Atlantis requires more complex functionality, such as : create message, specify message parameters, attach document (i can mistake, but AFAIK last feature cannot be implemented through mailer command line), so Atlantis has to use MAPI (exactly SimpleMAPI as it called now). So connect Atlantis and your favourite mailer possible only if mailer supports SimpleMAPI specification (can be a SimpleMAPI server). As I know Outlook Express and Netscape Messenger supports SimpleMAPI, but others... ...haven't seen recent Pegasus version for ages, but last I seen didn't support MAPI. Best regards, Andrey.

Thank You, Andrey! Pegasus does have an extension to integrate with MAPI, but it offers two options - Simple MAPI, and MAPI 1.0, and I was not sure which one to use. Now that I know, I can choose simple MAPI, and see what happens. Your excellent, clear explanation is very much appreciated.  :)

Max_Quordlepleen · Post by **Max_Quordlepleen** » Fri May 25, 2001 5:26 pm

samovar wrote: FWIW, my MAPI client is Netscape Messenger (the e-mail part of Netscape Communicator; I'm using version 4.74), and both Ocean Mind and Nova seem to invoke it with no problem.  I suspect that if you can just get other mail clients properly registered as the default MAPI client, they'll work too.

OK, here's the latest snag. Having installed Simple MAPI, I can now invoke my email client, Pegasus, by clicking on "Send by email" from within Atlantis. The trouble is, I get the error message you can see here: http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/maxq/mailscreen.jpg What makes me think that this an Atlantis problem, rather than a Pegasus one, is that if I try to send an open document from my other wordprocessor, WordPerfect, I get a prompt telling me to save the document first. When that is done, the file gets duly attached, without my having to close the file. In Atlantis, it makes no difference. Does anybody have a solution to this, or should I just go back to manually attaching Atlantis documents to emails?

Post by **admin** » Sat May 26, 2001 12:18 am

Your screenshot contains the answer to this question. The following text The file "C:\MYFILES\POEMS.RTF" cannot be opened by Pegasus Mail. This usually indicates that another application has it open. explains the reason. So, you was viewing your document "C:\MYFILES\POEMS.RTF" by Atlantis. Your document was in unmodified state (in other words, the document contents displayed by Atlantis was the same as the contents of the "C:\MYFILES\POEMS.RTF" itself). Then you decided to send this document by email. So you clicked the "Send by Email" Atlantis toolbar button. Right? Please check whether you can open this "C:\MYFILES\POEMS.RTF" document with another text viewer. Then try to open it with another word processor or text editor. As you might see, you can open this document by another application for viewing but not for editing. This is because Atlantis has locked "C:\MYFILES\POEMS.RTF" to not allow other applications to make changes to this document (this is a normal behavior for any word processor - other applications cannot access your document (for modifying) while this document is opened by Atlantis). The problem is that Pegasus attempted to open this "C:\MYFILES\POEMS.RTF" not just for viewing but it attempted to obtain the "read-write" access too. Of course, while this document is edited by Atlantis, Atlantis does not allow obtaining the "write" access to this document. Due to the security reasons, of course. I have just asked myself: why Pegasus required "write" access to the document? Others email clients (MS Outlook, Netscape Messenger etc) are completely "happy" with the "read" access only. Pegasus was supposed to do the only thing: create a new message, and attach the "C:\MYFILES\POEMS.RTF" to this message. Probably you expected that your Atlantis document will be attached to the email message "as is" too. I do not think that this was an Atlantis problem. In our case, Pegasus behaves not like other email clients. Sometimes Atlantis asks an email client to attach the document which can be accessed both for reading and writing. If your document that you wished to email, was in modified state, Atlantis saves this modified document to the temporary location (of course, Atlantis cannot implicitly save your document to the main file location without your explicit command), then asks your email client to attach that temporary file. In such case, Pegasus would work, I think.

Max_Quordlepleen · Post by **Max_Quordlepleen** » Sat May 26, 2001 12:48 am

admin wrote: Your screenshot contains the answer to this question. The problem is that Pegasus attempted to open this "C:\MYFILES\POEMS.RTF" not just for viewing but it attempted to obtain the "read-write" access too. Of course, while this document is edited by Atlantis, Atlantis does not allow obtaining the "write" access to this document. Due to the security reasons, of course. I have just asked myself: why Pegasus required "write" access to the document? I do not think that this was an Atlantis problem. In our case, Pegasus behaves not like other email clients. Sometimes Atlantis asks an email client to attach the document which can be accessed both for reading and writing. If your document that you wished to email, was in modified state, Atlantis saves this modified document to the temporary location (of course, Atlantis cannot implicitly save your document to the main file location without your explicit command), then asks your email client to attach that temporary file. In such case, Pegasus would work, I think.

You have raised a very good question about Pegasus' bahaviour, one that I intend to pursue with its support group. I am very grateful to you for the tip about a temporary file. By making a modification to the file, Pegasus was happy to send the file no problems at all. Once again, thanks

Post by **admin** » Sat May 26, 2001 4:04 am

It would be quite interesting to hear what they think about this.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sat Jun 09, 2001 6:50 pm

I'd be just curious why do people object to MOE (Microsoft Outlook Express) Is it mainly its size, which makes it unvieldy on slower machines, or is it the antipathy to a big company? Or is MOE misbehaving?:o It works faultlessly on my machine, which is fast enough to pull it without second thought...

its got all the features one can need, and than some... Seems like OE is under the general public eye so much that it is actually 'safer' app than some Pegasus, whose programers may do nefarious stuff

on peoples computers (viz the discussion here) with no retribution due to relatively small customer base. Van

Post by **admin** » Sat Jun 09, 2001 7:20 pm

>I'd be just curious why do people object to MOE >(Microsoft Outlook Express) Well, Microsoft Outlook is a standard component of MS Windows. It is tightly integrated with the operating system. It is always "preinstalled" on a user's computer (starting from Windows 95 OSR2), and consequently is always available for other applications.

Max_Quordlepleen · Post by **Max_Quordlepleen** » Sat Jun 09, 2001 9:00 pm

[blue]Seems like OE is under the general public eye so much that it is actually 'safer' app than some Pegasus, whose programers may do nefarious stuff  on peoples computers (viz the discussion here) with no retribution due to relatively small customer base.[/blue] I am sorry, Van, but you have no idea of what you speak when you criticise Pegasus.

For on thing, Pegasus does not have a "customer" base, as it is freeware. For another OE is a giant collection of security holes masquerading as an email client. It is bloated, buggy, and responsible for spreading more viruses and worms than all other email clients put together. Pegasus is just one of several excellent alternatives to OE that offer much greater security than M$'s awful spawn, and the minor problem I had with emailing from Atlantis using Pegasus has been resolved. Pegasus developers do not do anything "nefarious", like build in default settings that are fundamentally insecure and make those defaiults difficult to change, as M$ does regularly. Just as Atlantis is an excellent WordProcessor, better than any M$ equivalent, so Pegasus is an excellent email client, better than the M$ equivalent, IMHO.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sat Jun 16, 2001 2:13 pm

Sorry to have raised your ire ... By customer base, I really meant 'user base' which applies to anything equally. About difficulties connected with this issue, I'll say something later. You write that: "OE is a giant collection of security holes masquerading as an email client. It is bloated, buggy, and responsible for spreading more viruses and worms than all other email clients put together" Bloated it may be (is) but buggy not. It never let me down and I use quite a bit for news besides mail. And my powerfull elephant of a PC pulls its bloat without narry a bead of sweat on its brow. ;) Security is not really an issue for me, as I do not use OE in any office environment and I am fairly cautious in opening any stuff that I receive. The best security is not being a 'curious George' ;) and delete immediatelly any unrequested, unexpected mail. Also, I use ZoneAlarm firewall (free and excellent) plus lately I am hidden behind a router, if you are familliar with that. And Pegasus may be a good piece of programming, BUT... there is always a but. Stuff like non Microsoft wordprocessors, FTP clients, web publishing progs etc. are OK but not (in my op) browser, mail, as they are so integrated with Windows and most importantly, just about everybody has them!! And they work... There is also a big advantage in not being an odd guy on the block... I know that a'plenty having started my computing life on Mac platform. A theme of Maclife is having to say again and again the phrase 'but I have a Mac' in just about any discussion, which ends the discussion and the same goes for progs. It comes down to this: a 'standard is a good thing' even though I too sometimes curse Microsoft. I have things to do on computer, I do play with 'tuning' the machine, but mostly it just has to be there and do its stuff, and when it does not, I hate being in a position of having some special stuff, that few other people are familliar with and that nobody can help me with. I can imagine that I would get my MSOffice if I went into a large office workplace setting where seamless cooperation is essential. Wordprocessors like Atlantis have pretty good chance though, browsers and e-mail progs not, other operating systems will have their niches but I don't see that for browsers and mail progs. And if you take Microsoft progams into foreign language places on the web, they cope with it, other third party apps are likelly to have problems, I know it. Macintosh has problems, Opera on PC has problems, Agent (news) has problems and besides is awkward... 'nuff said I've nothing against Pegasus or other such programs, after all I am here taking part in a 'rebel' wordprocessing effort...

am I not?

Van

Pro · Post by **Pro** » Sun Jun 17, 2001 7:32 am

>A theme of Maclife is having to say again and >again the phrase 'but I have a Mac' in just about >any discussion, which ends the discussion and the >same goes for progs. Van, Yes, Mac is a good platform. Many ideas implemented in it are great. But "good thing" doesn't mean "better than another thing". You know, the last argument in such discussions is: "But my PC / Mac / Amiga / VAX / Cray / Sinclair / Atari / Tamagochi / etc. is cooler!" (Similar to dispute about Win / Unix / BeOS / etc.). You know, it is only a matter of personal preference. >It comes down to this: a 'standard is a good thing' >even though I too sometimes curse Microsoft. I have to agree with your thought about standard. As the matter of fact, any imperfect (bad

) standard is better than the absence of standard. Standard allows people to communicate and share their work, pushing progress ahead. (For example, for long time can't be achieved agreement about standard of “re-recordable” DVD - DVD-RW vs DVD-RAM - and who is in loss? The answer is: EVERYBODY - customers, developers, mankind on the whole). But if the bad standard exists, why not to make a new good one? That’s why I endorse guys from "Rising Sun Solutions" - who knows, maybe Atlantis will have good future. And we also...

Pro.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Jun 17, 2001 12:30 pm

Yes, the DVD is such a good example... Its like going back to the time of feudal fiefdom, where the king gave a town or the whole county to a noble... It is seriously holding back progress in that field. CDR could have been replaced today by DVDR If you like alternatives to some other programs than e-mail, you could try PowerDesk, LeachFTP, IrfanView, ZipNall, TClockEx, ... Speaking of Atlantis and its small footprint. That's because it is an integrated program, not built in layers upon layers with the use of DLLs like most programs nowadays but built intellingently. Thanks for not bashing me for my 'heretic' views in my previous post, I know I was touching on some hot subjects there... Van

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Support for other email clients?

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