Atlantis Clippy Bank is unsecure!

General comments and questions. Technical support.
Leopoldus

Atlantis Clippy Bank is unsecure!

Post by Leopoldus »

Is it possible to disable that Atlantis' module, which collects and saves text information copied to clipboard, or to change its settings?

Atlantis stores the whole clipboard history in directory C:\Documents and Settings\[username]\Local Setting\Temp, so everybody who gains access to the computer can view the total history of the user's activity.

I could not find any option to disable this feature of Atlantis or to assign another directory for storing ~AtlantXX.tmp files (for example, on a secure virtual volume).
The piggy-button on toolbar does only manipulate with the mode Atlantis works with Clippy Bank, but it can not affect clipboard information collecting and saving process.
Robert
Posts: 1900
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:27 pm

Re: Atlantis Clippy Bank is unsecure!

Post by Robert »

Leopoldus wrote: Greetings--
Atlantis stores the whole clipboard history in directory C:\Documents and Settings\[username]\Local Setting\Temp, so everybody who gains access to the computer can view the total history of the user's activity.

I could not find any option to disable this feature of Atlantis or to assign another directory for storing ~AtlantXX.tmp files (for example, on a secure virtual volume).
The piggy-button on toolbar does only manipulate with the mode Atlantis works with Clippy Bank, but it can not affect clipboard information collecting and saving process.
First, the Clippy Bank is not insecure at all. It collects data only if you ask it to, and it has a white piggy-button to clear its whole contents at any time.

When you shut down Atlantis, all Atlantis temporary files are automatically deleted. So people can gain access to your clipboard history only if you do not shut Atlantis down before leaving your computer open to them.

However, if you want to disable the Atlantis clipboard history feature, you have to disable the Atlantis histories:

1. Click Tools | Options… > General
2. Set the “Remember documents” option to zero.

Also note that the Windows clipboard contents are automatically cleared when you shut down Windows.

Finally, the TEMP folder used by Atlantis is the Windows TEMP folder as registered in the Windows Registry. If you changed this Windows setting, Atlantis would store its TEMP files in your new Windows TEMP folder.
Cheers
Robert
Guest

Post by Guest »

Hi, Robert!
Thank you for your fast and detailed answer.
However I'm afraid you have not concerned enough some nuances of the problem.

First
When you shut down Atlantis, all Atlantis temporary files are automatically deleted.
Well, they are deleted, but not securely wiped. So every not-so-advanced user can restore all those files by any of hundreds recover applications offered there at market (Restorer2000, FilesRecoverer etc. etc.)
Besides, if Atlantis or system crashes for any reason, so automatic deleting operation naturally would not even start.

Second
Also note that the Windows clipboard contents are automatically cleared when you shut down Windows.
Yes, I do know. But please concern the points above ("First").

Third
If you changed this Windows setting, Atlantis would store its TEMP files in your new Windows TEMP folder.
Yes, of course. But I can not change TEMP folder location in system, because so many applications and system services could be damaged by locating %TEMP% folder to an external or an secure virtual disk. That's why my wish is to change the location where Atlantis stores clipboard fragments, not to rebuild the whole my system to solve this particular task.

Forth
It collects data only if you ask it to......
However, if you want to disable the Atlantis clipboard history feature, you have to disable the Atlantis histories... Set the “Remember documents” option to zero.
Yes, it is a possible way. However I dare to say that it is very illogical to tie in this way clipboard fragments collecting and history features. I do love history feature in Atlantis, it permits to remember up to the last 30 documents (MS Word does remember only up to 9), and I do not understand, why I have to refuse this great feature only in order to disable clipboard fragments collecting feature which I do not need.
Do you sure that there is no any other solution for this problem?
Robert
Posts: 1900
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:27 pm

Re: Atlantis Clippy Bank is unsecure! (2)

Post by Robert »

Greetings--
1. As far as I am aware, none of the current word processors has such a wipe feature. If you are so concerned about covering your tracks, you should get a third-party "file shredder" or "hard drive wiper". There are plenty available on the Net. Wiping hard drive tracks is beyond the scope of the normal features of a word processor. However, note that Atlantis stores the TEMP files of its COD encrypted documents in RAM. These cannot be accessed with any recover application and they vanish into thin air as soon as Atlantis or Windows is shut down.

Also note that you can tweak the registry so that your SWAP file is cleared each time you shut down Windows. The SWAP file might contain "sensitive" information. But again this is beyond the scope of Atlantis.

2. Atlantis crashes very rarely, if it crashes at all. However, if Atlantis, or your system for that matter, should crash, it is a wise precaution to examine your system for possible damage or mishap when you reboot. Then you can wipe any leftover temp file if you find it necessary.

3. Applications that use the Windows registered TEMP folder will not have any trouble running if you change the Windows registered TEMP folder in the Registry. This is where they find this kind of information. But note that this is also beyond the scope of a word processor like Atlantis.

4. The next version of Atlantis might have a command to clear the clipboard history at any time. But do not expect this to be a wipe feature...
Cheers
Robert
Leopoldus

Post by Leopoldus »

Thank you again, Robert.
I do accept your position, that some extra security features are beyond of possibility word processor, even if this is a so good processor as your Altantis is. It was not a subject of my letter (I use PGP package and some other special software to grant security of my system).

Now returning the very beginning of our little discussion, I remind, the problem, that I could not find two settings in Atlantis:
1) to assign a directory, where Atlantis saves its Clippy Bank files
and/or
2) to disable Clippy Bank collecting feature at all (but without recent files history reminding feature disabling!).

Please could you advise me how it is possible to seolve one of those tow tasks or may be the both of them (if it is possible at all).
Robert
Posts: 1900
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:27 pm

Re: Atlantis Clippy Bank is unsecure! (3)

Post by Robert »

Greetings--
1. First, the Atlantis "Clippy Bank" and the Atlantis "Clipboard History" are two completely different features.

2. The Atlantis "Clippy Bank" will collect clipboard data only if you toggle "Clippy Bank collects clipboard data" on (green piggy-button). The Atlantis Clippy Bank will stop collecting clipboard data if you toggle "Clippy Bank collects clipboard data" off (same green piggy-button). Also you can clear the current contents of your Clippy Bank using the white piggy-button.

3. The Atlantis "Clipboard History" will automatically contain as many items as specified by the “Remember documents” option in the Tools | Options… > General tab.

As I said in my previous posting, the next version of Atlantis might have a command to clear its Clipboard History at any time.

But do not expect this to be a wipe feature...

Your TEMP folder and SWAP will still have to be "wiped" clean with any appropriate third-party utility if you want absolute privacy. Also note that the Windows Explorer "index.dat" hidden files are sometimes said to contain undocumented "historical" information on your activities. There are utilities on the Web that claim to wipe these "index.dat" files clean of all "private" information. But again, all this is well beyond the scope of Atlantis.

Actually, wiping a system clean of all "private" information at all times might well turn into a full-time job. :)

4. The Atlantis Clipboard History TEMP files are automatically stored in your Windows system TEMP folder as defined in the Registry.

If you'd like to change the folder where Atlantis stores its Clipboard History TEMP files, all you can do for the time being is to change your global Windows setting regarding the system TEMP folder.

Note that it is possible to create a virtual drive in RAM and to assign the Windows system TEMP folder to a location in that virtual drive. But this is for very advanced users of Windows, and well beyond the scope of Atlantis, or even of the Atlantis Forum.
Cheers
Robert
Leopoldus

Post by Leopoldus »

Sorry, Robert. Now I do know that I don't anything about these features in Atlantis. Was it your real aim to convince me of it?;)
Please trust me, that I've just read Atlantis' Help again, but it has not help me.
What is Clippy Bank? What is Cpiboard History? How Clipboard history does refer "Remember documents" option?
I thaught, that this "Remember documents" parameter value is only a number of how many recently opened or saved documents Atlantis shows under "File >> Recent Documents"menu item (see similar option in almost any contemporary word processor). But now I see that it is not so simple, is it? t is impossible to connect in any way this option I've meant with clipboard fragments storing. Or I miss something important?
Another thing, what is the difference between Clippy Bank and Cpiboard History?
Are those files "~AtlantXXX.aad" in my %TEMP% folder connected with Clippy Bank or Cpiboard History feature? I see, that those files are being created when Clippy Bank activity is disabled, aren't they?
Sorry for my stupidness, but could you explain a bit more about these features?
Robert
Posts: 1900
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:27 pm

Re: Atlantis Clippy Bank is unsecure! (4)

Post by Robert »

Leopoldus wrote: What is Clippy Bank? What is Cpiboard History? How Clipboard history does refer "Remember documents" option?
Greetings--
Actually, things are very simple:
1. The Atlantis "Clippy Bank" is meant to be used as a kind of electronic spike. Using the "Clippy Bank" toolbar buttons or their associated hot keys, you can add various fragments of text or pictures to your "Clippy Bank". These stored fragments can be used at a later stage to build a document. They can also be saved as a file. In other words, the "Clippy Bank" can be used as a kind of jotter where you store fragments of text or pictures clipped from any document open in Atlantis. Note that this is not done automatically. You have to send data to the Clippy Bank yourself if you want them to be stored in it.
However, the Atlantis "Clippy Bank" also has a special mode which will automatically collect any data placed on the Windows Clipboard from Atlantis or from any other running application. When you toggle this "Clippy Bank collects clipboard data" mode on with the green piggy-button, all data placed on to the Windows Clipboard are systematically collected and stored in the Atlantis Clippy Bank for later retrieval.
So you can use the Atlantis Clippy Bank as a kind of jotter to store draft documents or fragments of document. But this is not all. You can edit the contents of your Clippy Bank in any way you like to create a new document that can be saved. In short, the Clippy Bank is a draft document built with collected data. But it can be edited and augmented and become a document like any other document.
Note that the contents of your Clippy Bank can always be cleared using the white piggy-button or the corresponding hot key ("Ctrl+Alt+F8").
2. Atlantis also has a "Clipboard History". This is available from the down-arrow toolbar button attached to the "Paste" button. This Clipboard History will automatically store the last x items sent to the Windows Clipboard. The x number of stored items is determined by the value of the “Remember documents” option in the Tools | Options… > General tab. Atlantis has different "histories" available, and the "Clipboard History" is simply one of them. This is why the Atlantis "Clipboard History" will only contain as many items as are specified by the “Remember documents” option in the Tools | Options… > General tab. This option simply determines how many items are included in the various Atlantis histories.
3. Both the "Clippy Bank" and the "Clipboard History" can collect clipboard data automatically in Atlantis. But there is a difference. The Clippy Bank items are directly available as a kind of draft document and they will not be removed unless you clear the Clippy Bank yourself. On the other hand, the "Clipboard History" items can only be used if you paste them one at a time into a document or another. The "Clipboard History" items cannot be edited directly. On the contrary, the Clippy Bank items can be edited directly at any time. Also the Clippy Bank can keep as many items as you will send to it. The "Clipboard History" will only contain as many items as specified by the “Remember documents” option in the Tools | Options… > General tab. This means that there always is an upper limit to the number of "Clipboard History" items that you can store. Actually 30 is the absolute upper limit. This also means that older items will be removed from the Atlantis Clipboard History when the upper limit is reached and new items are sent to the Windows Clipboard. Old clipboard items have to make way for the new.
Cheers
Robert
Leopoldus

Post by Leopoldus »

Thanks, Robert!

Now I begin to understand something. (BTW, why don't you include this clear and simple explanation in the app's official Help document? I dare to tell, that now those fragment concerning the subjects of this our discussion is not so clear. You could only add there a direct answer my question, that those temporary documents named "~AtlantXX.tmp" are being created only Clipboard History feature is active, or in other words when "Remember documents" parameter value is not zero.)

My decision about the problem is to disable Clipboard History feature scilicet to assign "Remember documents" parameter value to zero. It is a pity :(, because I assign recently used documents history items number by this action to zero too. (I do trust your explanation concerning confidentiality problems, however in my situation security has higher priority then using convenience.)

Please take into consideration my wish for the next version of your Atlantis: to assign two different setting in configuration menu for Clipboard History and for Recently used documents number. As much as I can understand, it is a question on one code row in program, isn't it? And I don't think me to be the only of your users who thanks your for this little additional feature.

Thank you again for your explanations and good luck to you!
Robert
Posts: 1900
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:27 pm

Re: Atlantis Clippy Bank is unsecure! (5)

Post by Robert »

Greetings–

A few technical facts from the Atlantis development team.

A. The current version of Atlantis has the following features:

1. All Clipboard History TEMP files and all Safe Copies that Atlantis discards are rewritten (filled) with zeros before they are actually deleted.

2. When Atlantis or the Windows system crashes, all leftover TEMP files, if any, are deleted in the same way (zero filling) as soon as Atlantis is launched and before the new Atlantis session is actually started.

B. In the next release of Atlantis, ALL files that Atlantis discards (old backup files, old auto-saved documents, temporary files generated by the “Send by email” or the “Save as web” page features, etc) will be deleted in the same way (zero filling).

Cheers
Robert
Leopoldus

Post by Leopoldus »

Thanks again, Robert.
I take this information into consider. However my wish for the next version of Atlantis to separate different things in configuration menu does not directly depend of those facts you've got from Atlantis development team, does it? In any case a user may wish to have a history of recently used documents of 30 items and clipboard history of e.g. 5 items - and visa versa.
Prince
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 4:28 am
Location: The Saarland (Germany)

Post by Prince »

So best and most secure solution is working with a cod-file, renaming it after saving to a rtf- or doc-extension.
Just call me the Prince
Leopoldus

Post by Leopoldus »

2Prince
Yes, this way we could solve a security problem in the aspect of auto backups of documents opened in Atlantis, but it is not at all a solution for Clipboard History fragments securing.

BTW, how strong is the Atlantis encryption? Authors keep silence about it. "Atlantis uses 256-bit keys." - this is all. And this is an alert for me, that not everithing is OK with this encryption. Which algorithm is used? "256-bit keys" + weak home-made algorithm = 5 minutes of work for any experienced user, don't tell even about security professionals.
I think Atlantis is very greate word precessor, may be the best in the World, but, sorry, I doubt that the same programmers could know so much about encrypting and security as they do about word-processing.
Prince
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 4:28 am
Location: The Saarland (Germany)

Post by Prince »

Send me your mail-address offline. I will send you some information on the encryption I got some time ago.
Just call me the Prince
Robert
Posts: 1900
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:27 pm

Re: Atlantis Clippy Bank is unsecure! (6)

Post by Robert »

Greetings--
1. As was already stated on this thread, all Atlantis Clipboard History TEMP files and all Safe Copies that Atlantis discards are rewritten (filled) with zeros before they are actually deleted. Accordingly, you don't need to secure your Clipboard History fragments in any additional way. This is, of course, provided you do not allow anybody near your computer while you are composing secret documents. There is no secure measure against that.

2. If you click "Help | About" in Atlantis, you will notice this:

"PC1 128-256 bits Encryption Algorithm, Alexander Pukall"

This means that the encryption algorithm Atlantis uses is that created by Alexander Pukall, an internationally-recognised authority on the subject. Here is a short description:

"The PC1 cipher uses a 128 or 256-bit key. It's a stream cipher with a retroaction function."

You will find details in the following document:

http://www.rssol.com/en/download/docs/e ... orithm.zip

You could also have a look at these threads on the Atlantis Forum:

http://www.rssol.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... encryption

http://www.rssol.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... encryption

You will find additional documentation on the following Web pages:

http://membres.lycos.fr/pc1/

http://membres.lycos.fr/pc1/pc1.html

Finally, always bear in mind the golden rule of encryption, be it PC1 or any other algorithm:

Encryption is as safe as your password is.

Cheers
Robert
Leopoldus
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:55 am

Post by Leopoldus »

2Prince
Thank you for your offer, but Robert has already given me this information as you can see. But thanks again.

2Robert
Sorry :oops:
I've looked up for data regarding encrypting algorithm in Help manual, but haven't checked "About" section.
Thank you for your explanation, now I see that in Atlantis encryption is as good as other features.

But there is another serious problem for me with those encrypted files. Namly, files extension .cod is already associated in my system with another custom type of files. Could you advise me some workaround (for Atlantis I mean, not for this another application COD-files associated with).
Robert
Posts: 1900
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:27 pm

Re: Atlantis Clippy Bank is unsecure! (7)

Post by Robert »

Greetings--
1. There is a "Copyright" topic in the Atlantis Help which gives Alexander Pukall his due credits.

2. As far as I am aware, only one application can be associated with a given file extension. You will have to choose which application is associated with COD files on your system. Let's suppose that you choose to associate COD files on your system with a different application from Atlantis.

3. When this is done, you can open the Atlantis COD files in any of the following ways:

a. by drag & drop from Windows Explorer.

b. by right-clicking the file and choosing "Open With", then "Atlantis".

c. by right-clicking the file and choosing "Send To", then "Atlantis".

Note: For this, you must first place a shortcut to Atlantis in your "Send To" folder. Here is how to proceed:

- Open Windows Explorer and browse to "C:\Documents and Settings\[UserName]\SendTo"
- Right-click an empty space in the "Send To" folder, then choose "New | Shortcut". Browse to the Atlantis folder and select "Atlantis.exe". OK out of the dialog(s).
Cheers
Robert
Prince
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 4:28 am
Location: The Saarland (Germany)

Post by Prince »

For hiding your encrypted files you can replace the extension cod by e. g. rtf . When opening with Atlantis this shoudl be no problem.
Just call me the Prince
Leopoldus
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:55 am

Post by Leopoldus »

2Prince
For hiding your encrypted files you can replace the extension cod by e. g. rtf .
Please, could you explain, what do you mean? Hinding who from and where? Replace the extension when and what for?
Prince
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 4:28 am
Location: The Saarland (Germany)

Post by Prince »

Your wife, your boss, home defense... you know: to be paranoid does not mean that you have no enemies.
Just call me the Prince
Post Reply