Atlantis-Created Kindle File 3 times size of MS Word to KDP

[cjseasyaspie]

I've tried everything I can think of to solve this problem, but can't find a solution.

I'm working with MS Word with images, saved to Atlantis, and creating Kindle MOBI files.

I can go either way... upload the DOC or DOCX file directly to Amazon KDP... and have it create the MOBI file.

OR

Have Atlantis create the MOBI file.

I prefer the Atlantis route because it solves some formatting problems.

But the big problem with the Atlantis route is that the MOBI file is about 3 times the size of the MOBI file created by Amazon KDP.

This makes even a medium size file with images so large that it costs the publisher extra money each time the eBook is downloaded from Amazon.

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

[Robert]

Are your DOC or DOCX files entirely created in Atlantis, or created in Word and simply resaved in Atlantis?

In Atlantis, do you associate your pictures with the “Zoom to fit page” option?

Could you please post a sample file that becomes bloated when saved to MOBI in Atlantis?

[cjseasyaspie]

Yes, I have a sample file to upload to you.

The file was created in MS Word, and has been saved as Atlantis.

This is not unique, I've had it happen many times and have tried everything I can think of to solve the problem.

I'm now trying to help a new Atlantis user, and have created a short sample file to use for testing.

The files have long weird names because that's the way I keep track of what I've done to try to figure out whats wrong.

[cjseasyaspie]

I tried to attach my DOCX file, but I don't think it worked.

(I tried twice.)

Can I attach it in an email to you?

[Robert]

Have you followed the instructions on how to attach a file as can be found at the bottom of this page Using Atlantis Forum – Attaching images and files?

Alternatively, you can send the file to support@AtlantisWordProcessor.com.

[admin]

Thanks for the files.

Your source DOCX file contains about 700 KB of JPG image files. They are nearly incompressible. Atlantis saves the JPG images from your DOCX file to EPUB as is (without reducing their quality). This is why your DOCX file and the corresponding EPUB file created by Atlantis, are of almost same size – about 700 KB.

MOBI files generated by the recent versions of kindlegen, include both mobi7 and mobi8 content (actually a MOBI files contains your eBook contents in two different formats). So it is normal when a MOBI is the double of the size of the source EPUB file.

Your "Atlantis+ePub+to+KDP.mobi" is 1.2 MB. It is not the double of 700 KB because kindlegen reduced the quality of the images from the EPUB file. The "mobi7" folder of your "Atlantis+ePub+to+KDP.mobi" contains about 540 KB of images. The "mobi8" folder contains about 460 KB of images. Again, this is because kindlegen reduced the quality of the images.

Now about your "DOCX+to+KDP.mobi". It is only 446 KB, but it still contains two versions of the eBook in the mobi7 and mobi8 formats. It is about 220 KB per each MOBI version. How is it possible? The "DOCX to MOBI" converter have resampled the JPEG images (reduced their dimensions by at least twice) and significantly reduced their quality. This is how that supercompact MOBI file was created.

Atlantis does not create a "bloated" file. Simply the "DOCX to MOBI" converter creates MOBI files with images of low quality.

The "DOCX to MOBI" converter does no magic at all. There are different ways to reduce image quality in your document (including this one, directly through the Atlantis GUI).

Please see attached files:

"Shirley Blue Streak short sample2.docx" contains images with much reduced quality. This DOCX is 100 KB only (compare to 700 KB of your original DOCX file).
The corresponding EPUB file generated by Atlantis – "Shirley Blue Streak short sample2.epub" – is about 135 KB. When converted to MOBI with kindlegen (see "Shirley Blue Streak short sample2.mobi"): about 320 KB. It is much smaller than your "DOCX+to+KDP.mobi". And by the way, the file size can be reduced even further.

So there is no fault of Atlantis, and no magic from "DOCX to MOBI".

[cjseasyaspie]

I didn't... and don't... think the "DOCX to MOBI" converter does magic.

I do think Atlantis does magic... which I tell everybody who will listen, and some who won't.

I was the one doing something wrong... as I did suggest in my question.

I did not properly prepare the images before inserting them into the manuscript file.

When working with MS Word, Word reduces images size... as you point out... and not always the best way... as you also point out.

So I was accustomed to letting Word do it instead of taking control, myself.

Going back to my own book with photographs (instead of the Shirley Blue Streak test file), I find that if I prepare my photos with "save for web" with Photoshop Elements before inserting them into my DOC file, that solves my problem.

Thanks very much!

[Robert]

Just out of sheer curiosity, why don’t you create your DOC or DOCX documents directly in Atlantis? It might save you a lot of aggravation…

[cjseasyaspie]

I would always start with Atlantis, but I don't always always have that luxury.

Because I write and run a website for Kindle newbies, I often am asked to help with their problems... so must start where they are.

I'm glad you asked, because I have another, related problem.

I can't seem to properly apply my "CJs Easy as Pie" Template to an older MS Word (or Atlantis) file.

I do have it named as the default in the template window of Options, but if I open a previously built Word doc file, it brings in its own Styles and behaves as if it doesn't know anything about the Pie template.

Can you give me the proper steps to do this?

Thanks!

[Robert]

If you have problems applying a template in MS Word, we cannot help you with this. You should ask your question on the MS Office Forums.

[cjseasyaspie]

If you have problems applying a template in MS Word, we cannot help you with this. You should ask your question on the MS Office Forums.

I'm not talking about MS Word... I'm talking about changing templates in Atlantis Word Processor.

[cjseasyaspie]

If you have problems applying a template in MS Word, we cannot help you with this. You should ask your question on the MS Office Forums.

I see now why you misunderstood me.

Ok... the situation is this:

Let's say I'm using Atlantis, and have my special template, "The Pie" loaded as the default template.

Then I go to the directory where a previously-built MS Word file named Matt The Cat is, and right-click on the filename and when the "Open With" dialogue box appears, I choose Atlantis Word Processor.

So, at that point, I have Matt the Cat loaded into Atlantis and my template "The Pie" is also installed... because that's what it indicates in Atlantis Options box.

But if I then select Styles in the Atlantis Styles box, it displays only Atlantis basic styles... not the specially designed for the Kindle styles that are in "The Pie" template.

I have tried creating a new file with The Pie template installed, and when I do that, the Styles panel does show The Pie styles... but if I then load a previously built Word or Atlantis doc file, the Styles panel no longer shows The Pie styles.

I think that is because I don't have The Pie template properly installed as the default template in Atlantis.

[Robert]

In Atlantis, you can do 2 things with templates, you can either

1. Create a new document from a template. This is done through the “File | New > Create From Template…” main menu command, or the dedicated toolbar button.

2. Apply a template to an existing document. This is a rather hidden command. It has no corresponding menu item, no icon, nor any original hot key. If you intend to use this command, you should assign a hot key to it (I have assigned “Alt+R” to it in my Atlantis). You’ll find the “Apply document template” command in the “Tools | Hot Keys…” dialog, under the “All Commands” category.

Note that you could open your “Pie” template in Atlantis, and import part or all of its styles into any other open document. This will do pretty much the same as applying the “Pie” template to it.

I have tried creating a new file with The Pie template installed, and when I do that, the Styles panel does show The Pie styles... but if I then load a previously built Word or Atlantis doc file, the Styles panel no longer shows The Pie styles.

Any file that you save in Atlantis is saved with its own specific styles. If you reopen a file created and saved in Atlantis, it will reopen with the styles that were previously saved with it.
Now if you open a file in MS Word, and resave it in MS Word, anything can happen to the styles that were originally present in it. MS Word is well-known for playing tricks with styles…

I think that is because I don't have The Pie template properly installed as the default template in Atlantis.

Here is how to assign a default template to a document type in Atlantis:

1. Click “File | New > Formats & Templates…”
2. For each of the document formats in the “Document Formats” box, there is an already assigned template whose name is displaying across in the “Template” box. If you are not happy with the currently assigned template, press the “Change Template…” button, and direct Atlantis to the desired template.
3. OK out of all open dialogs.

HTH.
Cheers,
Robert

[rstroud]

Thanks to Robert for the tip about applying a template.

For those who might be looking, follow Robert's directions ... and go to Format once you get there, and scroll toward the end.

I assigned ALT+T for the hotkey ('T' for template, you know).

When you use the hotkey, you get a list box from which you can pick the template or the file whose styles you want to apply.

I have not gone through the whole procedure, so I do not know if you actually attach a new (Atlantis) template when you do this, or if you just in effect import the styles from the template. In any case, the end result is the same.

I have not had any trouble with the styles when I switch back and forth between Word and Atlantis. However, I have worked with templates and file conversions for many years, and for that reason I am always able to tinker until I get things to function correctly. I have had no trouble writing in Word (for example, dramatic material) and then importing into Atlantis for ebook building.

As for the other issue, graphics and Amazon ...

Regardless of the financial issues, I would use Kindlegen (which is what Atlantis uses for the epub-to-mobi conversion). I was using Kindlegen before Atlantis added its use as a feature. I have run numerous tests, and you get a good format with Kindlegen. The method of uploading a .doc file to Amazon and letting Amazon convert it does not work so well. You get an obligatory first-line indent of every paragraph. I hate that. Other formatting issues arise, too. Use Kindlegen, despite the bloated mobi file that includes two files.

I am really eager to know how well CJ's plan to use specially prepared graphics 'for the web' will work out. I hope she will let us know. I assume that 'for the web' means something with low resolution (96 pixels per inch, I guess). I do not keep up with all the latest marvels of Apple and other companies, but the screen resolutions may outgrow graphics with low resolution. I think I read somewhere that Apple now requires resolutions of 300 dpi for its book covers. I know we are talking about Kindle/Amazon, not Apple, and not about book covers specifically ... but obviously the discussion has to include other technologies, companies, and issues, since all these companies compete with one another and provide the same products.

Best ...

Roland

[Robert]

For those who might be looking, follow Robert's directions ... and go to Format once you get there, and scroll toward the end.
I assigned ALT+T for the hotkey ('T' for template, you know).

I wrote “You’ll find the “Apply document template” command in the “Tools | Hot Keys…” dialog, under the “All Commands” category.” In the “All Commands” category, the commands are listed in alphabetical order, which usually makes locating any command easier. And the “Apply document template” command happens to be near the top of the commands listing…

ALT+T for the hot key is of course much smarter…

I do not know if you actually attach a new (Atlantis) template when you do this, or if you just in effect import the styles from the template. In any case, the end result is the same.

Atlantis never attaches any template to a document. When you apply a template, the template styles automatically replace the styles found in the target document, from the root style downwards. And the styles are applied, of course.

I have run numerous tests, and you get a good format with Kindlegen.

KindleGen is Amazon’s own software. It could not go wrong.

I assume that 'for the web' means something with low resolution (96 pixels per inch, I guess)

Please, have a look at Save for Web Command. Here are excerpts:

Photoshop Elements' Save for Web command is specially designed for saving Web images, which you generally want to keep as small in file size as possible.

As I understand things, the “Save for Web” dialog in Photoshop Elements' allows you to do 3 things:

1. Choose the file type (PNG is usually considered as the most “portable”).
2. Reduce the picture size.
3. Reduce the color count, for example, from “True Colors” to “Web-safe”, which uses a simple palette with only 216 colors. Here is from All You Need To Know About Web Safe Colors:

Web Safe, or Browser Safe palettes as they are also referred to, consist of 216 colors that display solid, non-dithered, and consistent on any computer monitor, or web browser, capable of displaying at least 8-bit color (256 colors). The reason why this palette contains only 216 colors, instead of the maximum 256 colors, is that only 216 out of the basic 256 colors will display exactly the same on all computers.

You might also want to take a look at the following pages:

Web safe color palette
216 web color codes
216 Web Safe Colors

HTH.
Cheers,
Robert

[cjseasyaspie]

Thank you, Robert!

I'll be working through this today, and will report back with my progress... or lack thereof should that be the case.

Thanks again... I really do appreciate your taking the time to write all this out!

[cjseasyaspie]

Thanks to Robert for the tip about applying a template.
...
I am really eager to know how well CJ's plan to use specially prepared graphics 'for the web' will work out. I hope she will let us know. I assume that 'for the web' means something with low resolution (96 pixels per inch, I guess). I do not keep up with all the latest marvels of Apple and other companies, but the screen resolutions may outgrow graphics with low resolution. I think I read somewhere that Apple now requires resolutions of 300 dpi for its book covers. I know we are talking about Kindle/Amazon, not Apple, and not about book covers specifically ... but obviously the discussion has to include other technologies, companies, and issues, since all these companies compete with one another and provide the same products.

Best ...

Roland

Thanks Roland for the additional information.

I do have some answers for you on the graphics questions.

By luck, I just recently had the opportunity to help an author solve some problems with his graphics, so that provides me with some real examples.

It will take me some time to put it all together, but I will do so within a day or so (I must solve a few problems relating to templates, first.)

When I come back to post it, I'll put it in a new thread with an appropriate subject heading.

[rstroud]

Ah, yes ... Now I see the "All Commands" category toward the bottom of the list. Fortunately I also found it in the "Format" category in the same list box.

Yes, I know that the purpose of "Save for the web" regarding graphics is to produce a smaller file.

[cjseasyaspie]

Roland and Robert,

I think I'm going to give up on the idea of formatting images within Word or within Atlantis.

Photoshop Elements is not expensive... around $50 for the latest, I think... and it beats the socks off anything else I've tried.

If you want to see it, here is the link to the original of the photo I have attached to this message. (thr photo I attached is 85.2 KB)

http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/ABSTRACTS/GPN-2000-000642.html

Download from chart near bottom of page:
3400 x 3000 pixels 7,291 KB

When cropped slightly to achieve correct aspect ratio of 3:4 for older Kindles and the iPad 4, and Saved for Web with Photoshop Elements, the image ready for use in a Kindle ebook is 1200 x 1600 pixels and 85.2 KB.

[admin]

There are free software that you could use to resample images. GIMP, for instance. It is mentioned in the following video:
http://www.atlantiswordprocessor.com/en ... s_pictures